Video 68

69. Mandukya Upanishad | Chapter 4 Karika 94-100

yeah recording started stirring [Music] m we are almost at the end of um the mandu kia karika we're in the the chapter four so there are four chapters as you know and the chapter four is allah the chapter on the quenching of the fire brand and now we know why that name has been given we are we were on verse number 93 so 92 and 93 wonderful words were used uh extraordinary things were said about our own nature that adi buddha you are this thorium pure consciousness from beginningless time from eternity to eternity you are that changelessly so uh adi shantaha all the troubles of samsara they are already quenched forever you are forever free of it and then a beautiful phrase was used um non-originated you are without origin nothing caused you you are causeless and of course also nothing is produced from you the pure consciousness samyam you are ever this infinite consciousness everywhere at all times and in all objects whatever there is is nothing other than you this equally you are equally the same divinity everywhere at every time and in every being in every object and that one is you sam yum literally it means a homogenous mass the sameness and then this word vishaaratham now visharatham in this context is translated as holy the most holy of things and just now in arati here in ashram singing swami abhidhananda ji's beautiful hymn to the holy mother to masha radha devi prakriti paramam so there is a salutation there pavitram jaritam yasya pavitram jivanam the one whose behavior activity is manifested holiness is manifest usually that pavitra is translated as pure but here actually sacredness or holiness is the better translation as you're thinking this is exactly the visharatham that goddapad is talking about when it is manifested what does it look like this this utter holiness this very sublime very high luminosity that is holy mother's holy mother expresses it abhidhanji says in every action pavitram this holiness is expressed the whole life is a dedicated and holy life pavitram jeevanam tata and she is an embodiment of holiness pavitra swarup so this is vishaaradam this comes to the person who realizes i am who realizes one's own real nature that i am that thorium that pure consciousness now in the next verse 94 just the opposite he says if one persists in the dualistic vision that there are things other than me then that that holiness that sublimity cannot be attained so he says that in 94. [Music] translation there can be no perfection for people who have proclivity for multiplicity who tread ever forever the path of duality and talk of plurality hence they are traditionally held to be pitiable so guru pada if this one thing he loves just next to non-duality is is to poke the dualists so he says here that those who are obsessed with duality vedic they there is a i've seen in people there is an almost a deep need that there must be something separate from me there must be the other if there is no others i'll feel lonely no father mother if all are same and no gurus no father mother if all is one mass of consciousness how lonely that would be you know somebody say how boring that would be there's a tendency that there must be something apart from me with which i will have relation ah somebody i will love somebody to hate somebody to ignore somebody to feel superior to somebody to feel inferior to then it is nice exciting that exciting very soon turns into the nightmare called samsara there is this feeling that an external world must exist something different from me must exist this leads to a strong materialistic tendency i have seen this in people including religious people who have an aversion somehow some kind of dislike for advaita that usually goes with a strong materialistic streak that an enjoyment of the the material existence external material existence of the world and that feels threatened our little individuality feels threatened so non-duality is not possible if for those who strongly hold on to the reality of duality relative duality is a very philosophical way of saying that we consider this world to be real we consider this body to be real one very good clue is tremendous body centeredness my health a tremendous fear of disease um fear of old age fear of um you know losing youth and beauty and all so this kind of strong body centeredness it prevents an understanding of non-duality if that is there you will notice that person finds it difficult to understand the person may be very intelligent very well trained in science or philosophy or something but there is a deep inside that person feels no no no this is not true this advaita what they are saying is not true sri krishna pointed out it pointed it out in the bhagavad gita arjuna asked which is the easier path the dualistic path of bhakti or this non-dualistic path which you are teaching and krishna said for those who are very body centered literally it means those who are embodied they have what means with body for them non-duality the past a path of the unmanifested reality that this non-dual philosophy is very difficult for them now with body everybody is with body anybody who comes to vedanta class you need a body to come to vedanta class so body we all have body we are all embodied but what does dehavat mean too much body centered that everything we take this to be the reality and then you teach me whatever but don't challenge this i am this one then becomes becomes very difficult ah for such a person because that body centeredness is the root of duality i am this and the rest is not me and then you tell me anything else after that so this is what gowdap are this also condemning or pointing out here vede vicharatam sada not only ordinary people or materialistic people or worldly people but philosophers highly trained scholars here he calls them prithak wada vada means a philosophy a point of view prithakvadha means those who say that there are separate things from us from atma anatma strong belief in the existence of anathema atma is there but apart from me other realities separate from me they are there so prithakwada those who are always under duality they will never attain this holiness of this highest point of view vaishaaratyam is not possible vishaaradha is not possible for them and therefore he says they are to be pitied cripper the word comes again and again in upanishad it says those who are discriminate those who are who do not attain enlightenment in this life those who attain enlightenment in this life they are blessed they become they attain to immortality who realize that they are brahmana in this life this very self is brahman the mandu ku panishad also says those who realize this they are blessed but those who do not realize it who die before becoming enlightened upanishad calls them kripana now this word kripana is in many indian languages it means miserly small petty person so basically in the sense that we have not really attained the goal of human life what purpose ultimate the greatest purpose of human life that we have not attained so that's why they are i think that's the reason the upanishads use the word kripana and godapadha echoes it here and he says kripana asmita they are called they are they should be designated as kripana petty small pitiable people those who have not become enlightened so very high human destiny gaurapatha sees for us and also the vedic rishis they all see for us the high human destiny that in this life you must be enlightened swami vivekananda also you see the clear declaration the goal of human life is to manifest the divinity within us to realize who we are and to express it in life live the life of a jeevan mukhtar that's actually the goal of life okay then number 95 those who few who actually become enlightened in this very life itself they are those who are enlightened those who have a liking for advaita and those who realize advaita how precious they are that he is going to say 95. [Music] they alone will be possessed of unsurpassable knowledge in this world who will be firm in their conviction with regard to that which is birthless and uniform but the ordinary man cannot grasp that reality those few who have a clear realization ajaydah the in the unborn reality or the unoriginated what is the unoriginated reality thuriya those who realize i am that some may everywhere as i said everywhere under every circumstance whatever you encounter even when you are this is important even when you are experiencing duality you're seeing your own body you're experiencing other people relationships are appearing problems good and bad things are appearing in life and yet this this enlightened being sees sameness everywhere the same brahman inside and outside with eyes closed and eyes open that state those who attain that state in this life and he says it very few but sunish means those who have firm the clarity absolute strong realization about this not wavering not that it was clear in the mandukya class but not clear afterwards he is not talking about us not that case doubtful case no those who are absolutely clear effortlessly they know that i am brahmana those ones are very few and they are very fortunate they are to be praised maha jana they are the ones of unsurpassable wisdom they have known the truth the rest of us no matter how learned or how ignore ignorant no matter how we have read entire insect encyclopedia from that perspective we are agyani we are ignorant because we do not know the truth they know the truth so they have that profound knowledge maha gyara the profound knowledge loki in this world in this world itself ordinary people do not understand them so throughout history not just non-dualist not just brahma gyani you know the sages and saints throughout history often they have been derided or criticized as mad or foolish or childish or stupid we are so you know we are clever because we are rich and we are powerful and we have got so many degrees and we have achieved this and that what have you done nothing you are like a beggar going around you know like a crazy person so so ramakrishna today we say paramahamsa many people consider an avatar and he has worshiped but in his own lifetime in dakshineshwar there were so many people who thought he was mad bhaglavamun the mad brahmin of dakshineshwar and it's not just srinam krishna many many holy people so from the point of view of the worldly person loko nagar the worldly person cannot fathom the depth of this this one who looks like a person a human being but also looks crazy is not interested in earning money not interested in name and fame none of the worldly goals and yet extraordinary ok let me just go ahead little more that you see in every religion in every civilization you will see some such extraordinary mad men of god let us say mad people of god logo naga people do not understand that you can put it both ways people do not understand such people such enlightened beings or they do not understand the profound wisdom of such enlightened beings because here the wisdom is called very profound yeah then verse number 96 yeti so what is this great knowledge that they have got which others have not it is traditionally held translation traditionally held that the knowledge in hearing in the birthless souls is unborn and non-relational since the knowledge has no objective relation it is said to be unattached okay first thing you need to know that the word knowledge is ambiguous here in vedanta when we say knowledge guyana the sanskrit it has two meanings so one is the knowledge that we are trying to acquire there could be worldly knowledge or the special spiritual knowledge that we're trying to acquire in the vedanta class for example so when we get it enlightened so we are spiritually knowledgeable or we have realized it even enlightenment bodhi so that is knowledge and that's the knowledge the realization that i am that absolute reality so that's the vedantic knowledge in in buddhism it's called bodhi now according to advaita vedanta our real nature is consciousness so the sanskrit word gyan also applies to that so ah so when the word gyana knowledge is used sometimes it may mean brahman the ultimate reality or sometimes it may mean knowledge of brahman which we are trying to gather and realize for ourselves so two meanings of ghana two meanings of knowledge ultimate reality one meaning and the other meaning is the special knowledge which spirituality gives us helps us to overcome ignorance and we become enlightened and free so in two senses it is used um so here he's saying that our ultimate reality turium brahma whatever you call it is non-relational it is first of all why is it non-relational ajam non-originated because it is the only reality it has no cause and it also does not change so there is no no product from it let me repeat that you the ultimate reality you have no cause nope nothing precedes you and nothing comes from you really speaking it is ever the same if that is so then this this reality which we are the thorium is non-dual there is no second thing there is no second thing if there is no second thing what will it know knowledge is of something so there is no second nothing other than itself to know so therefore the knowledge or the consciousness which is your ultimate reality never comes into contact sankramati means coming into contact never comes into contact with another reality remember it does come into contact with appearances you see and hear and smell and taste and touch all sorts of things forms and sounds and smells and food and all of that so they all appear but according to gaurapata according to mandukya those are not a second reality apart from thorium so from thuria from the absolute perspective pure consciousness never comes into contact with a second reality na sankramati that's the point it is a non-relational knowledge let's just say it is consciousness only and whatever you're conscious of in day-to-day life or in spiritual life when you're meditating or whatever you're doing or studying vedanta whatever you're conscious of these are just appearances in consciousness they are not really a second thing apart from consciousness see to come into contact with to come into relationship with you need two things consciousness plus one real thing other than consciousness but that never is possible because there is no real thing other than consciousness in the waking world the waker and the waker's world this universe we are experiencing both are appearances in consciousness they are not really second not really a new thing apart from consciousness so from that perspective god is always from the highest perspective from the highest perspective consciousness never comes in contact with the second thing what does this mean one corollary we have to draw from this is again and again when we say witness consciousness witness sakshi somewhere in the mind is witness means it must be witnessing something there must be a something to witness but god upon here is saying it's not even a witness because ultimately in the ultimate sense there is nothing to witness other than itself so witness consciousness is used only to distinguish yourself from the the knowing mind the worldly knower the one who goes about in the world and you know uses the five senses to experience the world the one who studies vedanta and tries to understand who am i this is the knower to distinguish yourself from this we are used the term witness consciousness which illumines this no word which makes this never possible but now you take an even higher perspective god father's perspective where this witness consciousness the knowers mind and body and world are not apart from that witness consciousness so the witness consciousness is not really witnessing something apart from itself really speaking hence you cannot even call it witness okay if you got it good for you there is no use belaboring the point yeah so it is assang kramana it does not come into contact with any second reality notice if you don't call it a witness what will you call it we are slowly going beyond the limits of language there is language is always dualistic so at most you can call it witness after this you have to call it pure consciousness and then ultimately silence you can't even use words but it's there and it is your own nature i know there are lot of questions but i just want to come to a logical conclusion one or two more ah verses and then we will stop so look at the verse we just did assang grantham without non-relation it does not come into contact with anything it does not contact any external reality therefore this pure consciousness is said to be asangam non-attached non-attached in the most profound sense there are three levels of non-attachment one might be the one which we practice i am practicing being detached i am not getting trapped in samsara and i am being cool and unconcerned so a monk for example practices non-attachment but a deeper than that is consciousness itself which illumines and reveals everything but by his very nature is not attached what sticks to consciousness a very good example is light so the light here illumines this room it really it reveals the book and the laptop and this body the light reveals all the objects objects come and go the light doesn't come with them light doesn't go with them objects are maybe pure and impure it may reveal the image of a deity it may reveal something dirty but the light doesn't become pure or dirty so the light is revealing everything and it reveals itself you don't need another light to reveal this light the light is self revealing and revealing everything so prakasha and also completely unattached with what it reveals consciousness is like that good for consciousness but i am in trouble you are consciousness okay even this is the middle stage there is a higher stage than this this is what god is talking about when you give the light an object's example notice it's still dualistic the light is something may be unattached very nice but there's a world of objects which are different from the light there is the light but there are so many other objects which are not the light the books and table and people and things like that good and bad all revealed by the light but they are not the light it's still dualistic so this is sankhya consciousness and its objects guru pada is saying even this has to you have to go beyond this this is not enough these objects so called objects are they really different from you the consciousness so if i had time i would actually we can actually demonstrate this how an object does not exist outside you the awareness right now so you will see that what seems to be outside and i'm going out there and illuminating actually is in consciousness there's no difference between me the pure consciousness completely untouched and the objects which arise and disappear in me that is what he is talking about and that is the highest non-attachment so see three are non-attachments one is what we do a practice of non-attachment detachment physical level mental level then a more profound level of non-attachment which is consciousness itself the sangkin and then the highest level of non-attachment is where everything is nothing but the thorium with what will it get attached with what will it get detached also there is no question of attachment and detachment water can it be attached to the wave or detached from the wave no because there is no way but apart from water the gold in the ornament the gold can it be attached to the necklace or detached from the necklace no the question itself does not arise because the necklace is nothing apart from the gold the our classic example of clay and pot can the clay in a part be attached or detach from can the clay practice detachment from the pot you see that silly because there is really no part apart from the clay there is no universe apart from you with what will you are you do you feel you are attached with what what are you practicing detachment so that's gordo passes position very ashtavakra kind of position all right so be patient one more number 97 here he speaks about what happens if there is a slightest bit of duality so the translation should there occur any change for anything however slight it may be there can never be any non-attachment for the non-discriminating man what need one speak of the destruction of covering for him ok so what is he saying here if one sees the slightest duality real duality yeah actually we are experiencing duality all the time but what god happened says your what you are experiencing is a false duality is an appearance it's it's not a real second thing apart from you but if you really feel that there is a second thing good or bad apart from me then samsara starts for you why that slightest difference brings in space time and causation and there is a moment you see that there is an object different from me then you are located apart from that object space and the difference brings about cause and effect from where did that come from where did you come and that means change if change is there that means time time and change means eventual you know arising and seizing production and destruction birth and death so all of samsara comes in when you see the slightest bit of duality he says little bit of change also if if you accept any acceptance of duality brings in samsara upanishad said when the second appears there is fear there is anxiety and some sorrow when there is something apart from you there will be raga and dwisha attraction and repulsion either you assign a positive value to it i like this i want it or a negative value this is bad i must get rid of it i don't like it ragadveisha comes because it's other than you once ragadvesha has come also relationship will come sambandha what is my relationship with this other person other thing other place activity whatever it is whatever is other do i accept it reject it do i like it what relationship do i have so samsara starts for you that's what he is saying here anu matriarch if there's a slightest change if you accept the anatma then other than the self jayayaman if there is a birth or origination little bit of origination asangata sada nasti this highest this highest non-attachment becomes impossible which is the highest non-attachment what we just spoke about guru pal does not attachment not even the sankhya non-attachment sunken non-attachment can exist with a completely material universe consciousness material universe just have to separate um and the non-attachment practiced in this world it could be the monastic non-attachment it could be the mindfulness kind of non-attachment witnessing calmness that can only be practiced in a material world ah so but the highest non-attachment which is talking about that will not exist if there is even the slightest intuition of a second apart from me a reality but it is fully compatible with the experience of the universe you may have a very busy life full of why only a second with millions of things in your life and people in your life and um good things bad things problems as long as you accept that they are all appearances in me the consciousness they are not one second reality apart from me this is very clear to the enlightened being the enlightened being has no problem acting in this world interacting with the world knowing it all at all times to be nothing other than brahman or god um what to speak about one second what to speak about removal of the covering so here is bringing in advaitha how do you speak about advaitha you are brahmana i don't know it yes that is the covering that's the whale maya does two things wailing power projecting power you don't know it's a rope wailing power the reality of the rope is hidden from you maybe it's maybe it's dark and then you projecting power you make a mistake it's a snake it's a snake we don't know you are we are brahman and immediately you make a mistake it's a real world it's a real body and mind that's the reality i am this now i have to face this world this is attraction and this repulsion and fear and temptation and all of this thoughts so if a person believes that there's really a second reality apart from from oneself then your bondage in samsara is is a real bondage then think about it if there is really no second reality only you are the only reality brahman is the only reality and we by ignorance we feel there is a second you know knowledge advaithic knowledge will come shankara and god upadha and mandukya will come and then you realize non-duality or free from it knowledge will save you from ignorance but if actually a second reality is there apart from you if there is it's not that a rope is appearing as a snake there is a real snake which has come and sitting on the rope no amount of thinking it's a rope is going to help you the snake is going to come and bite you so if there is a second reality if there is actually that actually non-duality is not true it is actually duality then there is no question of knowledge removing ignorance awareness means removing the covering of ignorance all this mandukiya and inquiry and all of that that depends on the on the assumption uh on the axiom that the problem is knowledge and ignorance that has been established by shankaracharya in the in his introduction to the brahmasutra classic essay called brahmasutra bhashya uh brahmasava the essay on superimposition that is this truly a problem of ignorance anyway so that's a different topic but he just says if there's a second reality there is no question of removal of ignorance no question of liberation by knowledge alone i have told you the story of the the donkey who was tied with an illusory rope you know the story that the washer man would take the donkey and with you have to think of the indian context with the dirty clothes would pile up the donkey and take it to the river bed and wash clothes all day long and then bring it back and then next day go around the village distributing the clean clothes now one day he came to wash the clothes and he found that he had forgotten to get the rope to tie the donkey to a tree and he was um worried because he was a poor man and the only thing he had was this duncan if he lost the dunk it's like losing your suv you know then what do you do so a wise man walked past and what's your problem explained and the wise man said it's don't worry just go near the donkey and pretend as if you're tying it with a rope make sure the donkey sees you that's all yes and he does that he pretends as if he's tying the donkey like this and the donkey is watching carefully and then the man goes to the riverbed to wash the clothes and he's looking back and the donkey also looks back at him but he's standing stop absolutely stuck still not moving at all somebody liked this story they put it on youtube with me telling the story and they had put an unfortunate cartoon of me and a donkey both of us looking at each other like this so the donkey is watching him but not moving at all and all day this man washed the clothes and the donkey didn't go anywhere and this man came back loaded the clean clothes on the donkey and said let's go hut and the donkey refused to move now this problem what a big problem if there is a rope you can untie but if there's no rope what will you do what will you untie and so he goes rushes to that wise man says now you put me in serious trouble if i had really tired the donkey could have untied it would be no problem but there is no actual bondage what do i do he says just pretend to untie it make sure the donkey sees you and he does this and donkey is watching and then he says let's go when the donkey starts walking so advaitha is like that we suffer from an illusory bondage and we make great efforts to get out of it and the freedom we green is like that the donkey being untied the donkey being tied and untied is exactly like the bondage and freedom gordo part is talking about but as long as we are in it it's a very serious affair so he says yeah all right um 98 a question might be asked ah shankaracharya introduces this say ah mr gora father now i've got you so you do admit that there is ignorance and ignorance has to be removed so there is brahman plus ignorance right now so there is something to be done i i know its not a real bondage and all of that but still there is something and that has to be you know undone maybe an illusory rope or whatever so so this bondage has to be undone there is something called bondage and there is something called i grant you your turia brahman whatever so its duality and then the action is required and cause and effect becomes real abhijit asked that question yesterday that don't aren't you saying when you get knowledge then you will be liberated so there is a causality and time and here you are talking about there is an uh covering which has to be uncovered what do you say to that guru father replies in 98. no soul ever came under any veil they are by nature pure as well as illumined and free from the very beginning thus being endowed with the power of knowledge they are said to know typical gold power the move after setting you up what do they call it bait and switch or something like that is he is setting you up for that same teaching of non-origination again he says what did i say did you forget adi buddha you are uh by nature enlightened from the very beginning adi shanta all bondage and you know being tired in samsara have never been there from the very beginning you have been free of bondage so the actually the donkey example is applicable here so all your so called bondage and liberation is like that illusory tying the donkey and liberating the donkey there is really no bondage and really no um veil what does that mean in terms of advaith ontology see the way the later later on it was developed um gorda pada shankar and especially the posh shankar rights they said the levels of truth paramartic the absolute level of truth is thuriyam or brahman which you are at the vehicle level transactional truth rope snake as an example of course rope is not the ultimate truth it's transactional but anyway it's an example at the level of transactional truth uh we talk about maya and this world being produced and the body and the sentient beings being under the veil of maya and under the spell of the projecting power of maya maya has two two powers avar and a big shaper wailing and projecting so it veils the reality that you are brahmana and it projects you the brahman as this world and then as this knower in manduka terms waker and waker's world all of this is the wailing power and projecting power of maya and you have to overcome it come to class and study about it and think about it understand it stay with that knowledge and you become liberated and so on and so forth all of this is transactional not the ultimate truth ultimate truth is there's no maya at the level of ultimate truth there is only brahmanatorium which you are so this is the distinction when you are talking about veil to be removed transactional truth not the ultimate truth so it is not a second thing apart from brahman there is no duality causality change there just as the snake is not a second thing i see the snake really it's a rope how many are there count apparently two snake and rope but no there's only the rope it appeared as a snake there's only thorium in brahman you you are you are that and you appear as this world of duality and you attribute it to maya that's all at this level of appearance so therefore beautiful verse at no time did you ever come under the veil of maya there is no such thing as the veil of maya who survey dharma not just enlightened person not just after enlightenment at all times all jeevas dharmas here means the ji was the sentient beings because prakriti nirmala by their very nature they are pure consciousness and they are enlightened from the very beginning they are in the sense of being pure consciousness their pure consciousness to begin with and always that they are always free it's not that after vedanta and enlightenment you become free you just realize that you are always free so the donkey realizes i was always free even when that man tired me apparently and that man released me apparently all the time i was free it these are the ones who are said to be enlightened not the one who says i was in bondage i did so many spiritual practices i attended so many classes and now i am enlightened i am free no no that one is that one is ignorant the one who realizes i was always free that one is truly enlightened who is the knower of brahman who says that i did not know about brahman i studied lots of books attended many classes thought about it meditated a lot now i know brahman that one does not know brahman who knows brahman the one who knows brahman cannot be known as an object i am that brahman nisargadatta's thing i like it very much where somebody said to him you are a brahmagyani a knower of brahman which is the highest praise you can give in our culture and this immediately scolded him you are insulting me what an insult how is that an insult you are the knower of brahman you are enlightened he said i am not the knower of brahman i am brahman noah brahman is somebody who knows brahman no no no no no absolutely not so this is what he is saying always free mukta you are brahman the one who realizes this nayaka very beautiful let's quickly take the questions there are many raised hands giant yes since we've come to the end of the course you know i wanted to make one comment and ask one final question you you've you've been very patient with my questions no no you ask good questions so the comment is that i have to say that nothing have i enjoyed more of late than this course and listening to you and i've been here since the beginning of this course the last two years so i really want to thank you very sincerely for challenging me and uh anyway my question is this and it may sound a little you know impertinent but i i need to ask it are you as our teacher adopting an agnostic view of vedanta as my professor chakravarthi i mean when if he talks he's if he's conducting this course i would expect a rather clinical academic critique of the thing but you're you're a high monk of the religious order and and are you advocating this path advaitha as the best path the sort of the fast lane to enlightenment in other words should i regard your conversation talks as prescriptive or instructions to follow this path and not another so the question is this is this course and what you have been saying in this course what i have been saying is this descriptive am i teaching a text or prescriptive i would say primarily descriptive my duty was to teach this text faithfully right i am teaching mandukas so without diluting it by the way if you think when people have been saying that it is very hardcore vedant and you are taking this extreme stance if you think that you haven't really seen how it is taught in by the monks in the himalayas that is really uncompromising that is really uncompromising and that's the way actually it should be taught i have actually been much more accommodative rather more than those monks would be they are very harsh uh on anything dualistic uh i remember this physicist in india he went to a great advaitha teacher at that time who has passed on since and that way the teacher asked him what do you do i said i study i'm a physicist physicist i'm a researcher oh physics science that's superstition give it up come to bed from a vedantic perspective however horrifying it may seem science and what you what passes for conventional religion and all our worldly dualistic transactions our superstitions our weaknesses are to put it that in some way unless it is used for vedanta and realization any other worldly usage is a waste of time the world has its use the only use is study gurdapath and manduk and become free that's the only use of the world that's the only thing it's meant for and and they are right in a sense if you argue with them logically they are they have they are logically very tight there is no escape from that from what they are trying to say so i have been actually much more sort of accommodative now is it prescriptive this that is in a i would say a corollary a secondary thing first of all it is a teaching of manduka if you want to learn what this text says on its own merits that's what i have done and that's what i wanted to do prescriptive yes and no if and many of us here are spiritual practitioners so many most if not almost all all of us so if you are asking what should i do with this one is my answer is the best and safest path most wholesome path is what swami vivekananda has recommended and i also follow that personally and i would wholeheartedly recommend it to everybody study this understand it appreciate it on its own merits but let it be part of your spiritual journey and don't be limited by it srirama krishna is to say when you sing the scales um sarigama the highest is the knee at the highest the high pitch and sudama krishna says one cannot always stay there that's this the highest pitch one cannot always see the the peak of the everest is a magnificent place but it's also utterly inhospitable to life it's it's a terrifying place to be so um yeah so this can be part of your spiritual journey it should be assimilated um as a part of a well-formed spiritual personality which should have according to vivekananda philosophy meditation devotion and service as its components i remember when i was studying i was in the himalayas a very extreme kind of life i was leading in a little cottage there 10 000 feet perched high up on the mountain side and i thought i was really now being spiritual it's exactly what i imagined being spiritual to be there's this other much more senior monk staying close to me and another cottage who called me and asked asked me what young monk what are you studying math magic what are you studying these days i had gone with one book ashtavakra there is one book more extreme than godopathic i had gone with that so what does ashtavakra do it takes the ultimate teaching of gaurapata what we have reached now and just that no more you know arguments no more methods just the ultimate conclusion and asks you to stay there so when i showed him that he said that's all right that's very good and then he gave me another book vishnu sasranam a very bhakti book a thousand names of vishnu with a commentary on each name which are all very devotional dualistic text and he said read this also. and then he said loneliness will bite you young monk because we are on the path we are not god up we are not at that but we don't have the perspective of god it's no use trying to pretend that we have it's it's much easier much better to acknowledge the way we are right now and take this and walk towards it so what he recommended was a balance of these notice swami vivekananda if if that physicist had gone to swami vivekananda and said the physicist swami vivekananda would have been very happy and would have wanted to know what would be a scientific perspective of say the metaphysics of sankhya now that's what he did with tesla he was very interested he instead of saying oh all that's superstition from one perspective it is but that's not a helpful perspective and that's not sri ramakrishna's approach either should i leave it at that yes there is another way of attaining this knowledge one way is like manananananananananananananana needed hasana come to these classes think about it work it out for yourself and stay with that truth until you realize it another way is the divine mother mashaladha was in banaras at that time and swami brahmananda was the president of the order and other monks and he sent word to the holy mother no the holy mother sent word to swami brahmana the president of the order and a mystic of the highest order um so sent word to him said ask him why should one worship the divine mother meaning not herself just the divine mother of the universe if you want enlightenment why should you worship the divine mother and swami brahmananda sent back his reply says because the keys to brahma-gyana are in the hands of the divine mother brahma-ganit chabikati mohammad mahamaya so the so yeah this you have to take on faith i'm saying it in all seriousness not just to you to everybody there is this other way if you take refuge in god refuge in the divine mother this same knowledge in its fullest dimension can you can get it just like that effortlessly it can be given to you it has happened so ramakrishna is the testimony too that sriram krishna says whatever is in the veda and vedanta my mother has shown me but it has happened afterwards also without going through this kind of process going to a different process devotional process but just by praying to the to god let's just say to the divine mother and you suddenly get this this breakthrough happens that's also possible yeah so i'll leave it at that yeah can you hear me yes swamiji thank you very much for giving us an in-depth uh knowledge of advaita vedanta i wanted to ask you about the turiabasta as i understand let me stop you right there it is not an avasta ah a stage or a condition or a yeah um so uh waking dreaming and deep sleep these are the avastas turiya is not in our style yeah no no so i was asking about breaking sleeping and dreaming also as far as that is concerned then the waking the only one which is better for our meditation and getting into the real state what is the real state meditative state and you know being a part of brahman and things like that because that's the time you can really concentrate when you are alive when you are awake so so then sometimes you know at night like if you're feeling sleepy you want to lie down and praise that all right to do it of course of course of course anything anything and everything that takes you towards this is all right see one might ask after all this condemnation of dualism so our dual it's clearly a dualistic worship that we do my lord i worship my lord it's dualistic so is godfather condemning it and he's saying that for these people there is there is no hope who keep on saying that i am different from god i clearly think i'm different from god and i'm this poor little being and i'm worshiping god so is that hopeless no no no there is a duality which traps you in samsara which is most of samsara but there is a duality which helps you to get free from duality so you use that duality to get free from duality and gorupada will be all blessings for you see there are other texts written by godhapada very few people know about them this is commentary on the sankhya karika that not not a particularly good one it's attributed to gaurav pada i have read that that's a small text but there is a very esoteric tantric text which is written by godopath called subhagudaya i have a copy of that but it's a very rare book it's very difficult it's it's about the worship of the divine mother who is writing that god upadha so yes praying to god meditating love of god in any way that itself is freeing it takes you towards enlightenment so what is the name of the book you said swamiji oh see this is the problem ah i must get that book it's called sub sub but i don't think it's easily available i got it from uh in haridwar in a rare book shop subhaga let me write it down sub huh arjuna not to ask too many questions so i sometimes you know even if i want to ask i keep quiet i say you know no no no let everybody say so i will understand from them not to say true is it both ways you can you can ask questions and the good thing is to listen to the questions of others and and answers sometimes yeah sometimes they are our questions and sometimes a person asking is so caught up in the question that they don't absorb the answer but people who are listening absorb the answer sometimes it happens i have seen that yes very good for me my meditation is much better i must tell you because you reminded me of hiran nagar and he also says and so my meditation much better thank you so much very good very good very good one thing i want to mention i would have mentioned to the end is so vedanta is repetitive that means you know are you enlightened at the end of all of this and we scratch our head and not quite all right what is the answer solution repeat the whole thing so and they say wash and rinse again and then again watch so uh sravanam needed hasana and it's a good thing is that the entire text is now available with this class once it will be uploaded the whole text of the mandu kakarika all the chapters we have been at it for nearly three years i think and now it's all uploaded freely available you can repeat uh all right so since i was going to say this at the end but now because she has asked the recommendation about this is one should repeat this text if you can listen from the beginning to the end very good if you can't do that just the first chapter there are a few classes which are all there chapter one if not not that also just the talk i think one or two talks were there on seventh mantra that's the most important text of the whole book the seventh mantra of mandu kyopanishan nanta pragyam nabhish pragyam nova pragyam na pragyanaganam what is the theorem that mantra is very powerful it's one of the highest most sublime parts of vedantic texts so just that i think there were two talks about it if you just repeat that that's also good enough that's the essence of the whole teaching very good giant sri ramakrishna over and over again says that the shakti and ramen are two sides of the same coin yes for example ramen and shakti is like fire and its power to burn yes would goropoda utterly reject this idea it would probably would one has to be honest about that so it is his perspective there is only one reality if you give equal reality to shakti then what will happen is the manifestations of shakti it will lead to a kind of dualism even that non-dualism of kashmir shaivism there there's an element of dualism there strictly speaking gaurav powder would not go down that line though we are speaking only in the mandukka karika realm remember we're in the context of this as i just said gaurav wrote a whole book about shakti so what he's doing in practice is something beyond just this text he's like that is true worship divine mother just today we were we were chanting in that hymn to divine mother prakritim paramam so at the end it is said bhakti vignalatri what does she give she gives two things the divine mother one is vigna the highest non-dual wisdom which is this she gives this and she gives devotion to god in life this is what is to be aimed at they are not two different things actually we have seen one side of it if you try to just hold on to this i was lucky to have that old monk sitting there next in the next cottage who told me cultivate it but also cultivate bhakti and one realizes this is just an expression of the same uh truth same realization it just seems to be different so somebody asked swami vigyana nandaji the recital of srinamar krishna so are the paths of bhakti and ghana different the they had some devotees were having a quarrel about it and so swami vigander said why don't you speak about it and they talked about it debated in front of him finally they asked him they couldn't come to a conclusion they asked him what do you think and he said as paths they are different but where they lead to that reality is the same yeah a truly fulfilling spiritual life will have both of these we'll have both of these devotion and knowledge how are you a good one yes i would like to thank you very much and also i have one question so a person who is attaining the samadhi yes samadhi is a state all kinds of samadhi states except the final and highest one which you might call in advaitha it is called sahaja samadhi which is what actually godupath is speaking about when you realize that you are the theorem and yet from our perspective you are still in that amitesh body you are still you seem to have a personality so what is your state then that's a state because you are in this particular body and mind the we call you the jeevan mukhtar the enlightened being from our state if we ask you you would say i am the thorium i am i have no state i am the reality of all states but from our perspective you are this person and that state we will call it sahaja samadhi where it is not a samadhi where you cut off the external world and withdraw inside and remain absorbed in that reality but with eyes closed and eyes open you see the same reality that that is that state is permanent and that is the same as brahman okay now here in the samadhi state like uh the person can he identify himself with the identity which is associated with the waker in the waking world certainly in most samadhi remember some there are many many samadhi's except the nirvikalpa samadhi the highest one or the assam pragyat samathi there is a an a personal identity still remaining so when in a samadhi when a person is having a vision of a deity ishta devata darshan so is there personal identities is it still there yes it is there without that you cannot have a vision of deity who is having the vision then yeah but the focus is not on on oneself yeah okay like if i consider it some person can come back to the uh waking identity or in the in his waker world so at that point of time uh who is taking that decision consciousness can take the decision to return back to the waking world consciousness neither goes nor returns samadhi is attained by the mind by an effort the mind goes into samadhi and by because of person prior karma the mind again reawakens from samadhi and there are multiple stages there is a stage in which it re-awakens from samadhi back into this worldly awareness with the knowledge of course there is a stage where it you cannot reawaken it it has to be pulled out by external uh you know like srirama krishna is to teach people around him repeat this mantra do this when i am in this samadhi then i can come back and then there is a final state when while neither by oneself nor by anybody else the mind can come out of the samadhi and in that samadhi 21 days ram krishna says the after that the body and mind drop off so but notice gowda pada he will say this is out of syllabus and he have you noticed in this text he is not interested in these things for him these are very low things he is talking about consciousness itself you are talking about mind mind can be in a worldly state it can be in waking dreaming deep sleep it can go into samadhi but gaurav are they saying that to whom in what reality what is the reality in which mind is doing all these things that is turian that's what god of father is interested in yeah very good thank you thank you yeah uh swamiji thank you so much for all your guidance and great musculars please as i'm sitting on the the ego is becoming more and more spiritual yes in the sense that at first we think that we were worldly we were trying for some kind of worldly success and happiness in the world and slowly we begin to lose interest and we see that it does not work that way we become aware of the possibility of spiritual life and that awareness also develops from being maybe ritualistic to becoming maybe devotional or meditative to becoming philosophical to finally coming to somebody like pada and that's how godad would see the mountain of spirituality coming and he's of course at the top so this whole process from the worldly ego to the spiritual ego is still veva harika transactional and still ego based now at this level the ego becomes aware through the process of knowledge becomes aware that i am not the final i the my reality is not this thought of i i am being witnessed illumined by consciousness beyond me so the identity shifts from ego to sakshi you regard yourself not as that i thought which was going on till now we could not differentiate between the i thought and the sakshi now you begin to differentiate you begin to see i am the witness of the eye with shankaracharya now you understand when he says in the very first line of nirvana mano buddhi chittani i am not the mind i am not the intellect i am not the memory i am not the ego if you translate that sounds so paradoxical ego means i i am not i what does it mean i am not i how can i be not i so the real i is the witness of this ego and that becomes clear at this stage it's still also part of the transactional thing and then one one shifts the identity to the witness consciousness understands what the witness consciousness is with the help of the intellect only and one is finally free of the whole chain from ego downwards the spiritual ego is what surround krishna calls paka army the ripe ego the spiritual ego what do you mean by spiritual ego it will always identify itself either as a devotee he says i am the servant of the lord that's a spiritual ego i am pure consciousness so isn't that the ultimate reality no even there there's a play of the mind it's still the mind is still working that's the spiritual ego the ultimate reality will be silence very good one more then we have to do two yes again thank you very much this is fantastic i don't know how to express myself but anyway we talk about duality is causes fear yes but there's also fear in knowing what the other side means yes and as a householder sometimes you wonder if you cross that line yes he says so what does that mean so this is a good question how can one overcome so this is one the good question because there is fear associated with non-duality also wasn't swami vivekananda terrified when srirama krishna tried to give him that that experience wasn't at a different level of course wasn't arjuna terrified when he had this awesome spiritual experience in the 11th chapter of the gita and that was not a non-dual experience that was still a dualistic experience and that was the level of experiencing the virat the cosmic waking state so there is fear associated with spirituality but you have to ask the question whose fear it is the fear of the ego and it's associated you know it's it's it's gang it's it's friend the the intellect and the worldly intellect the mind and the associated worldly samskaras they are terrified they don't want this since we are identified with that we feel that fear let me tell you a funny thing uh which happened swami bhutesha nandaji was the 12th president of the order so we used to take all our we means not me the senior swamis and we would all watch you take the questions to him they asked him the question why was there fear why did vivekananda or arjuna and other great and you know spiritual seekers when they at the verge of vision why do they feel terror and shrink back from it so he said buddhist sanji said that see imagine everything disappearing the world that means the reality of the world your own body your mind your identity whoever you thought you were that's just disappearing into a vastness wouldn't you wouldn't you be terrified so this discussion went on but the funny thing happened at the end when swami asked a counter question he gave a reply and then finally you know he had a very dead pan expression and he would speak very slowly and he'd always remind me of mark twain who was asked to hurry up and he said i have only two speeds this one and slower so sway buddha sanji was like that so at the end he said but you lot need have no fear you lot means to all of us the monks there at first we didn't get what he wanted he meant that you're never going to get this experience anyway so you needn't be afraid of it and then when we realized it was a howl of protest swami what a he's the head of the order and we are all monks who want this so he says what are you saying and he was uh he just he refused to smile or anything he just kept he was very dead man human dry humor like this he said you lot needn't be afraid of it it's not going to happen to you um okay let me yeah so one must break through that fear it's you who recognize that fear that fear belongs to the mind not to the consciousness all right let me just go ahead and bring it to a grand conclusion two beautiful verses 99 the knowledge of the enlightened man who is all pervasive does not extend to objects all the souls also like knowledge do not reach out to objects this view was not expressed by the buddha so kramati nahi buddha the enlightened one your buddha means enlightened in the first line and the second line the buddha means the buddha so he says so really speaking the knowledge of the enlightened one that means the very self of the enlightened one which is pure consciousness does not come into contact with any object because there is no second object by now we know he has told us ad nauseum that there is no second object to come into contact with just as the goal doesn't come really come into contact with the ornament the water doesn't come into contact with the wave similarly not the clay with the pot similarly consciousness never comes in contact with its so-called objects even while experiencing everything in the world what an amazing insight and then he says taina for this all because who is this enlightened being it's not a man i'm not enlightened not even a jeevan mukhtar like nisargadatta he says he is the all-pervading brahman thai means all-pervading not only the enlightened being you see dharma all the rest of us who think we are not yet enlightened we would like to get that enlightenment those who don't believe in any of this at all you say this all the nonsense and superstition and there's all outdated stuff who cares all of us are that infinite limitless consciousness without an object without a second non-dual consciousness and then he says buddhism this teaching was not given by the buddha which is a strange snarky comment to make at the very end and shankaracharya comments there in his commentary shankaracharya says he uses the term um very close to the non-duality and then he says upanishad revealed by the upanishads the buddha he meant shankar also mentions the buddha so buddha comes very close to the non-duality mentioned in the upanishads and he says why because he denied the reality of an external world bhaiyata external world that the real entities outside the buddha showed that buddha buddhists they showed that it's not so there's no real external world apart from consciousness and the internal there is only consciousness within so he says the buddha comes very close to this non-dual teaching which is from the upanishads he also adds that shankaracharya this is from the upanishads and therefore it makes what he means is it makes sense for gaura father to say it was not a teaching of the this was not a teaching of the buddha it's a hotly contested debated area a lot of scholars have worked on it many many views are there i have any this is an entirely different subject maybe we'll talk about it on the wednesday class when i talk about my experiences with the buddhism courses at harvard okay now the last verse hundredth he end ends at 100. so after realizing that state of non-duality which is inscrutable very profound birthless uniform and holy we make our obeisance to it to the best of our ability and this place i think uh somebody would jump up on puja she would jump up one minute you said not no state and here is a state it's just a way of expressing actually it's a translation gaurav other himself does not say stage what does he say doordarshan it's very difficult to to grasp why because it is subtle it is non-objective whatever we have grasped till now is an object remember the story of the ten friends who went out for a stroll and then they thought that their friend was drowned in the river and they counted they could count only nine because they were leaving themselves out each person who counted because it's we are always looking out into an objective world and not counting the subject because it's a subject because it's a pure subject it's very dull darshan very very profound very inscrutable very subtle ati gambhiram extraordinarily profound gambhiram profound and serious so the most profound thing some then he uses this most beautiful phrase ajam samyam vishaaratham the unoriginated consciousness samyam everywhere all the time in all experiences in everything it is the same one consciousness vishaaradam the most holy i salute we salute namaskur yathabalam with all our our heart we salute this he so he's saluting turiya here somebody would who wants to quibble would say how do you salute today isn't it dualistic to salute the turia so he has he says how do you salute buddhwa by knowing by realizing that i am the turian this is the real salutation to brahman to realize that you are brahman okay so that brings us to the end of our journey with godhapada the manduka karika nearly three years i think we have been at it in between of course there was a long gap of one year because i had to take that break for the divinity school fellowship this is the highest the final the most powerful and the smallest the shortest of the upanishads i'll end with a story with which i had begun nearly three years ago we know the story of hanuman and ramchandra hanuman asks sri ramachandra how does one get liberation and sri ramajandra says so this is actually apparently it's there in the muktik operation which i have not read myself one of the minor upanishads mandukya by itself is enough to give liberation to those who seek liberation a lot is packed into that so those who want liberation for them this one text is enough now supposing you don't get liberation that might be our question except the fortunate few who have got liberation those of the rest of us who still feel that we are not enlightened yet and we have not we are not liberated then sri ramachandra gives a list of 108 upanishads if you have not done it yet then here is the rest of the library for you so we are going to now take the scenic route we went straight to the top of the mountain though ramachandra recommended it this is not a wise way of teaching there is actually a syllabus which the monks in the himalayas follow and the manduka is not at the beginning of it at all so any good way of teaching would keep it at the end or somewhere later on but i was ambitious in a hurry so i thought we should get a view from the everest first see the final teaching first whatever can be said except maybe the ashtavakra so see this first and then make our way down and then climb back up but this time taking the scenic route exploring the beautiful valleys so we will we will study the other upanishads now we will study the qatar panishad the mundaka panishad we will study the isha upanishad the ken upanishad we will study uh one chapter that's my pro feeling i mean that's my plan at least of the tithe upanishad um two chapters of the chandukyo panisha and two chapters of the british are nekopanishad so this is my plan for the years ahead it's a really scenic route and it's much more it's not this kind of um you know you you feel breathless when you hear these things in imando if you follow it seriously it just makes you feel lightheaded but the scenic route is you'll come across stories you'll come across descriptions of different practices there'll be teachers and students they'll be humored and and also these teachings may be in a much more digestible form so that's that the journey the long journey is now beginning all right uh comments questions we still have a few minutes giant giant did he get liberation i am blessed that i find that all the doubts i have now complete clarity but one needs to i think go through it again and again so what is the best translation uh with the original text that you would recommend for the as well as for ashtavatra for mandu upanishad i would recommend and for the journey ahead in fact over the next few years this eight upanishads by swami gambhira nandaji um advaitashram it's available from vedanta press two volumes are there this is the second volume it contains mandukya so swami gambhiraji was very accurate if you want to the original sanskrit text of the mandukya in upanishad and karikas is here and the a very precise accurate translation of shankara's commentaries there not the original sanskrit but just an english translation of shankara's commentary but it's very precise uh he was a very exact man yeah so um so i would recommend this and the uh and the other one which is available is of course swami nikhilanandiji's translation of the upanishads including the mandu kyopanishad which is also in fact it's more popular here in the west four volumes nikhilangi's work or a single volume the manduka and he has extensive introductions and so yes these are the two which i would recommend and also the other book which which i recommended to prabhu babu uh dennis wait's book om aum om dennis waits uh book um on the mandukka started reading it oh you got it already is it thanks to amazon prime very useful i really like them in fact dennis wait has used swami paramatan's lectures at the end he mentions that a lot of his what he is saying is based on paramatanji's lectures and also let me just mention since we are since she asked about the books hindi those who know hindi there are i mean a lot of things that i say are from those sources so there are these four volume work by uh akandan and the saraswati four volume work um i have got here the last volume this is the mandookya karika akandan saraswati it's available only in hindi four volumes most impressive work so four volumes and the other one is uh the gowdapadha sarah gowda paths again only in hindi uh by mahesh that's two volumes gowdapa the sarah unfortunately there are no english translations of these ones these are extensive commentaries he was one of the greatest scholar saints of the 20th century in hinduism akanda saraswati and all these gita press books which we read in in hindi upanishads and all of that they were his translations so um gaurav padhasara in uh hindi two volumes and akananda saraswati's manduka kardika in four volumes one for each chapter fantastic work since you mentioned oh my one thing i didn't like i think it's like a little bit all right so the little topics we can take up slowly over time ah yes yes just a quick thanks for letting me join the classes live with the tail end and i just want to thank you and all the people who have attended these classes and their insightful questions and your answers have helped me a great deal on all the team who didn't have the opportunity to attend these classes live true but just tremendous sources for this knowledge which i think is invaluable for anyone who can lay their hands on it so i'm eternally thankful to you and all the people who have attended these classes and asked these questions over the years it's been extremely insightful thank you thank you for your participation and your questions others have also mentioned to me how good your questions and deep your questions are yes thank you so much [Music] one second let me just see before you ask there was one comment which caught my eye um [Music] sravani are all schools of vedanta technically non-dual unlike sankhya etc in bhakti schools everything jiva etcetera independent realities now only advaita is really non-dual though you have i think at one time it became fashionable to call your school non-dual so vishishta dwaita is qualified non-dualism is pure non-dualism which is actually if you look at it is pure dualism um where krishna is the non-dual reality uh then uh shuddhadvaita dwight advaita duality and non-duality of nimbarkacharya then achinti of hyderabad of the gaudiya vaishnavas so they all claim some kind of non-duality but shankara's advaita in contrast to them is called keval advaitha only non-duality so if you say non-duality you know in fact if you look at it this way all the other schools of of vedanta have one thing in common they are all paths of bhakti they're all devotional schools all other schools of vedanta are all devotional schools so that's why swami tapasya and energy has written a classic book bhakti schools of vedanta so where he has included all the other schools except advaita vedanta yeah and then non-vedantic schools are all dualistic is dualistic by sheishika's dualistic sankhya is dualistic yoga they're all dualistic schools in buddhism except for a variety of madhyamaka buddhism and one variety of the viganava the so-called mind only and emptiness school a synthesis of which is the foundation for tibetan buddhism today that's non-dualistic but others are dualistic okay babu please yourself hello uh you talked about uh i i started late joining the classes you talked about inter-observance consistency how it's not against the grateful state as being mistake where is that further expounded which chapters or which lectures um go to go to yes inter-subjective agreement so you go to um the second chapter second chapter where godhapath dismisses all the attempts to distinguish waking state from dream state so one of the arguments is in waking state we are all seeing the same thing yes we're all seeing and we all agree that we see the same the cup is there you see it your friend sees it um your family members see the cup so the cup must be an external real cup that's what we say so yeah so how would god respond to that why would he say it's like a dream so i see a cup in my dream nobody else has seen it but this one everybody else sees it's very easy for god or father to deal with it godfather says in your dream also there is inter-subjective experience in your dream if you're having a cup of coffee with friends you it never happens that i am seeing a cup of coffee my friends do you not see the cup of coffee all your friends in the dream also will see the cup of coffee in a particular stage there is always in the state itself there is always inter-subjective experience there is no inter-subjective experience across the states for example what you consider real because we all agree upon it that thing is not present in your dream also there's no inter-subjective experience across waking and dreaming so that's what he will say think about yeah but you can think yeah it's very interesting but his arguments are very simple and powerful and if you want an concise english exposition of it um swami nikhilan and the g in his four volumes on the open issues in the volume which has mandukya he has written a special appendix where he just considers this question that god upadha reduces waking to dream he erases the difference between them ten objections to godupath's position and uh how gorupada responds to those 10 objections one of them is this inter-subjective agreement in the virtual world you are a person and you have your own consciousness wakefulness sleepiness and dream state are you projecting another uh world and i am projecting another world yeah so that that would be that would be idealism god mandu kyopnish does not take that route that would be like the mind only school of buddhism that we are all consciousness streams working in parallel there is no external world all worlds are projected by the consciousness itself and each of us projects but there's some kind of intersubjective experience produced by similar karma now we discussed this in our indian classical buddhism course at harvard also how is this possible but this is a very complicated way of going about it manduka says just take a common sense approach here is a world and we are all in this world and we are sharing it we are not projecting it the cosmic mind of hiranyakaraba is projecting this world and it's common to all of us just as your mind is projecting your dream world which is common to all the dream subjects in your dream similarly imagine a cosmic mind which is producing this if that is also too much you can bring modern science into it imagine a material world produced by big bang and this this is the physical world which we all share that's why we have inter-subjective experience even from there you can go back to uh the today of of manduka that's a big subject thank you let's take one any more comments yes the journey ahead yes so we will accept for the special class on wednesday its not a class its just an informal discussion and slide show and storytelling same time 7 30 wednesday but other than that we won't have uh classes till we reopen in the fall and we'll try to keep this internet community going so even if we have actual physical classes if things open up we will try to arrange our i t team will work on it so that the zoom people can still tune in and watch at least some of them if not it will be uploaded in any way so the recordings will always be uploaded i pray to sri ramakrishna to the holy mother to swami vivekananda to shankara gorda father and line of advaitha teachers may this teaching be luminous in our lives may become may we become illumined when we realize this as our identity as our real nature in this very life itself i was going to say and be free and i could just see god father sort of rolling his eyes and he was saying that you are already free maybe realize that by the blessings of this ancient line of teachers [Music] let me see all of you before we all disappear thank you very much thank you so much thank you there's so many wonderful uh comments in the chat you should take a look uh before the chat disappears thank you so much thank you so much thank you thank you good to see you all yes so people from all across the country and across the world yes yes thank you so much thank you thank you take care take care thank you so much wrong classes don't don't delete them yes otherwise we will we'll try to continue to zoom our id people are there they'll think of something to even if if we have physical classes we'll still have some kind of zoom classes and zoom classes are pretty interactive they're working out quite well yeah yeah take care may the lord bless us all may the lord protect us allah